[quote="brad fisher"][color=blue]Can anyone help? [/color]I'm investigating the HD Thunder as a stills replay device, with the possibility of some animations. I need to know both the pros and the cons. What are the problems? Does it work for you, and if so, how do you have it installed? Does the graphics department send directly to your disk, or do you retrieve images from a network? How do you trigger it - manually, E-Mem, P-Bus, GPI, X-Keys, twist 2 wires together, AMP, BVW, Odetics, controlled from a Kalypso (how?), DNF control etc. The more information I have, the better idea I'll have about whether it's worth pursuing as an option (people here are grumbling about the cost). Oh, and I need to know by last week. Isn't that always the way?[/quote] Brad, if you search the Thunder topics, you will see a lot of posts from me about Thunder. If you are looking at it for a purely still store device, I would say it is a great machine. I have experience only on the XL 4 channel SD version. It is also ok to use for animating bgds or moving OTS's, maps etc. Stuff that is not time sensitive for air or for timing in timelines like transitions. Do not think that you will be able to use this as your main animating device, it works directly with the switcher through P-bus, one serial cable and you are set. No other way to remote it to the switcher. It is as mentioned slow, and very unreliable calling up aniamtions through P-bus. Great for doing some prepro using dve and laying it into thunder to play back later. If time in getting animations on air is an issue, then it will not work for you. I would get a demo, I am sure the HD version is not much faster then the SD, never know though. This is not a bug, it is basically the way it was designed. It will play clips back to back in one channel, but you must preset the next clip, and it will basically transition in that channel to the new clip, if you preset it ahead of time. So in this case it is fast, but I never knew of any live environment that new what they were airing next. Most on the fly.. It is a PC, so you will have some lock ups etc. Definitly use a SQL server and watch folder. Yes you can mail almost any format into it I think and export any as well.. good luck Bill

[quote="FoxSixTD"]We were, however, able to figure out how to transfer files from our final cut pro systems directly into thunder, via the Watch Folder. Our editor would take an animation from our graphics department, do the sound design, and then "drop" the final clip and it's key signal into a folder, and it would transfer into thunder. Saved a lot of injest time. Scotty[/quote] We at first were trying to import directly to the Thunder workstation, and that would cause serious problems if the director was on-air, using a sequence. We would send a group of OTS graphics into the watch folder, and the directors sequence would freeze. To get around this problem, we use a separate browse station to do our ingest into Thunder. The main problem we have now is with database lock-ups at least once a week. Pinnacle thinks it's our ethernet network. Basicly, If you are having the Thunder manage the database instead of an SQL server, the system becomes very sensitive to timing issues. If a browse station doesn't turn off a file lock on the database at just the right time, the entire system starts getting flakey. The main reason I'm replying to your message is about sending video clips to the watch folder. I know it works, but I've noticed problems. Thunder gets all excited that there's a new file being transfered into the watch folder. It starts attempting to import before the file transfer is complete. It attempts to import the metadata files. Eventually, the movie imports, but I have a bunch of junk left in the database to cleanup. How do you get around this? What version of Thunder are you running? My workaround is a separate share on the browse station that isn't being watched. we then manually do an import of the movie. Old school eh? Scott Thomas (yet another Scott) Art Director WINK-TV

Thanks, Scott. That's the sort of information I need. Anyone else?

Brad, We used the SDI version of thunder at my last shop in San Diego. I'll give you my oppinion, for what it's worth: Thunder has this ridiuclously slow CUE time: I'm talking like 4 seconds to cue!! We had our thunder hooked up to the switcher directly via P-Bus. Every time I talked to Pinnicle about this, they said they'd get back to me with a solution. They never did. I can only hope that the HD version has worked out this issue. We were, however, able to figure out how to transfer files from our final cut pro systems directly into thunder, via the Watch Folder. Our editor would take an animation from our graphics department, do the sound design, and then "drop" the final clip and it's key signal into a folder, and it would transfer into thunder. Saved a lot of injest time. Thats my two cents.. Hope it helps! Scotty

[color=blue]Can anyone help? [/color]I'm investigating the HD Thunder as a stills replay device, with the possibility of some animations. I need to know both the pros and the cons. What are the problems? Does it work for you, and if so, how do you have it installed? Does the graphics department send directly to your disk, or do you retrieve images from a network? How do you trigger it - manually, E-Mem, P-Bus, GPI, X-Keys, twist 2 wires together, AMP, BVW, Odetics, controlled from a Kalypso (how?), DNF control etc. The more information I have, the better idea I'll have about whether it's worth pursuing as an option (people here are grumbling about the cost). Oh, and I need to know by last week. Isn't that always the way?

[quote="scottgfx"][quote="Bill D"]...but not using sequences would be like switching without using emems.. Bill[/quote] Are you using the sequence function of the Thunder, or are you using a MOS interface? We have not used MOS here at my station. We rely on Thunder sequences.[/quote] MSNBC uses sequences built by a graphics operator. When I was there, I constantly asked about Thunder MOS for like 2 years I think. Most mng didn't seem interested in even testing it. The last response to that question a few months ago was that we may get deko 3000's to replace the Thunder which was only 2 years old. They had some demo in NY with it, and since the network might get them, they must be perfect. So you can see where the knowledge is there. MOS all seems good in theory b/c producers change so much, and never say when they add stills that won't be in the sequence. So it work at CNBC, they used it for a few hours a day. That was a while ago, not sure if they use it more now. Bill

[quote="Bill D"]...but not using sequences would be like switching without using emems.. Bill[/quote] Are you using the sequence function of the Thunder, or are you using a MOS interface? We have not used MOS here at my station. We rely on Thunder sequences.

[quote="Shriz"]I wouldn't suggest using ANY sequence for a Pinnacle product. Sure, Pinnacle would tell you that it's supposed to work fine, but I can assure you that you will be asking for trouble from time to time if you do. Before I td'd, I ran Pinnacle Thunder still store for a couple of years, and I would just go WITHOUT a sequence, manually punching in every graphic that I needed.[/quote] All due respect at certain places you cannot manually punch in every graphic especially for those that TD as well as do SS. Also some segments, would have maybe 20 floating fullscreens all that are maybe 3 pages for each quote. Yes there are occasional issues with the Thunder, but not using sequences would be like switching without using emems.. Bill

I wouldn't suggest using ANY sequence for a Pinnacle product. Sure, Pinnacle would tell you that it's supposed to work fine, but I can assure you that you will be asking for trouble from time to time if you do. Before I td'd, I ran Pinnacle Thunder still store for a couple of years, and I would just go WITHOUT a sequence, manually punching in every graphic that I needed.

Mike, We were just looking at our Thunder XL here. I would try unchecking some of the items in the view pulldown menu, and then add them back. This may "show" you where the "tree" is hiding. Also, one thing we were thinking, maybe someone "slid" over the database window to cover over the tree. ( meaning the database has priority over the tree) If you have it the way you want it now, underneath the window pulldown, is a Toolbar layout option. Clicking this should allow you to save your layout. I haven't played around w/ this option since around the time we installed thunders, but I seem to remember that this option doesn't save all the parameters for everything on the screen. ...but it may give you a starting point if this happens again. -Curt

This is a bit of an aside to the current thread, but is all about Pinnacle Thunder. I'm sure this is a simple fix, but the layout of our Thunder XL is out of whack. I walked in the other day and the database sequence boxes we had created were outside the main window that includes the network tree. I played with it for a while then walked away. Someone else came in and was able to put the boxes back in the main window after a reboot. However, somewhere in this process the network tree disappeared. I've tried the ctrl + T and the drop down menu shows that it's selected, but it's not there. I'm guessing it got stuck under a box or window somewhere. I'm wondering if someone has a fix. Thanks in advance.

[quote="jonas"]you're supposed to be on vaca.[/quote] Damn you got me, it was raining.. :)

you're supposed to be on vaca.

[quote="jbs"]Bill D... This thread put me onto Xkeys - glad I saw it. We have Chyron Aprisa still and clip stores, and the shotboxes for those are..., well not good to say the least. I would love to get one of these and come up with something faster and better. Do you use the p/s2 version or the USB version? The USB version looks much more flexible, but there is the issue of USB cable length since the mainframes are in a different room far away. We're using the p/s2 extenders that came with the equipment for their respective keyboards, but we sure don't have room for many keyboard/meeses next to the switcher! Thanks for the idea.[/quote] The X-keys are great we do things like turn the bgds on and off and change bgds all through the X-keys, those features are buried very deep in the menus. Two button presses on the X-keys allows us to select the channel and select 1 of 5 bgd choices for self keying within the Thunder. We actually have one PS2 (58 button) and one 16 button with LCD which is USB. We use this as our numeric keypad, since the feedback from Thunder is very small to read what number you are pressing. The PS2 really should be a USB as well, but engineering was afraid the USB would crash the Thunder, which it does not. As long as the device supports USB I would use them. It is a lot easier if you have multiple rooms running multiple X-keys. You can build the file, then easily upload to the other boxes. There is a way to copy PS2 from one box to another but it is clunky and takes a while. If you use USB, make sure the program (macro manager) is put into the PC's start up menu. As far as the distance for USB. We have these Cat 5 USB extenders. Run Cat 5 between frame and user end. These boxes have USB in and outs on them. They come in all sorts of different applications besides USB. They are cheap and are sold anywhere PC stuff is sold. I would definitly check out the xkeys, (Pinnacle originally referred them to us) I know of a few other places that use them for a lot of different equipment.. later Bill

Bill D... This thread put me onto Xkeys - glad I saw it. We have Chyron Aprisa still and clip stores, and the shotboxes for those are..., well not good to say the least. I would love to get one of these and come up with something faster and better. Do you use the p/s2 version or the USB version? The USB version looks much more flexible, but there is the issue of USB cable length since the mainframes are in a different room far away. We're using the p/s2 extenders that came with the equipment for their respective keyboards, but we sure don't have room for many keyboard/meeses next to the switcher! Thanks for the idea.

[quote="thumbs"]Thanks Bill, I'll try messing around with it. I thought I had gone through the entire manual, and didn't find anything about that. I'll dig deeper. Right now we have a couple of shot boxes connected to the Thunder and it just not working that great. The station is trying to install a Sundance automation system, but its having problems talking to the Chyrons, the Thunders and the Air Controls. It's quite the cluster. Basically it's locking everything up at the same time. Not good. Again thanks. Thumbs[/quote] Hey Thumbs, You know not sure if there is much in the manual. Look for a version 5.5 and or 5.0 software release notes, I think there is some info in there. If you want email me. I can sit in front of the Thunder between 5-7pm, if you can do the same, and just talk you through menus, easier then trying to type it all into a post or email. Have engineering run a cable from switcher to any serial port on the Thunder. Are you using Thunders as primary still store or with clips? The X-keys interface is a great way to use the Thunder if you are a TD . I would think in theory the automation can still be hooked up with both P-bus and an Xkeys. Gives you more control.. later Bill

Thanks Bill, I'll try messing around with it. I thought I had gone through the entire manual, and didn't find anything about that. I'll dig deeper. Right now we have a couple of shot boxes connected to the Thunder and it just not working that great. The station is trying to install a Sundance automation system, but its having problems talking to the Chyrons, the Thunders and the Air Controls. It's quite the cluster. Basically it's locking everything up at the same time. Not good. Again thanks. Thumbs

this is obvious, but make sure the dnf controller has the pbi option...

[quote="thumbs"]Here another Thunder LT question. Has anyone tried or know if, you can operate the Thunder as a Fast Forward. We are trying to connect a DNF (instead of a Lance controller), to the Thunder LT to run animations from our switcher. Not sure if the two pieces of hardware are compatable, but our station is too cheap to purchase any new equipment. We have also run out of video drops in our switcher to add a dual channel fast forward. Just wondering if anyone has messed around with this. Thanks.[/quote] Thunder has P-bus directly built into the box. All you need is a switcher with P-bus and a serial connection to go to a thunder com port. Bunch of menu setups, but I think it is documented. Can trigger all channels, with different p-bus address. Not sure if you use a DDR, but the Thunder is very slowwwww, cuing up clips. Last week I had to build a last sceond 'animation' so rarher then triggering from a profuile I triggered from the Thunder. I had to wait about 4 seconds to get it to play at the right time through the timeline. Any quicker it played late. I guess if you have nothing it is better than that. Bill

Here another Thunder LT question. Has anyone tried or know if, you can operate the Thunder as a Fast Forward. We are trying to connect a DNF (instead of a Lance controller), to the Thunder LT to run animations from our switcher. Not sure if the two pieces of hardware are compatable, but our station is too cheap to purchase any new equipment. We have also run out of video drops in our switcher to add a dual channel fast forward. Just wondering if anyone has messed around with this. Thanks.

[quote="AJR"]scottgfx, just out of curiosity, what are the specs (computer hardware wise) of your thunder?[/quote] We have a Thunder-XL 4-Channel. Chaparral FibreChannel Raid. The CPU is a few years old now, and I don't remember which CPU it has. I don't know about RAM either. The Intel motherboard has the NIC connector, I'm curious if there is a way to add gigabit ethernet to this system. Hmmm.

scottgfx, just out of curiosity, what are the specs (computer hardware wise) of your thunder?

[quote="Matt Saplin"]I wasn't sure if there was a good place to post this question here, so I thought I'd start in the TD forum to see if anyone else has seen this, or knows how to handle the situation. We are running a Pinnacle Thunder XL...lately when in sequence playback mode, the sequence will often skip past a graphic or two. If those same graphics are recalled manually and are either dragged or sent directly to a channel using the shotbox, they actually show up in one of the output channels. Naturally, we rebooted the system and were able to clear the difficulty. Now, the problem seems to pop-up more frequently...even after a reboot. Has anyone else seen this? Are there any other steps we should take to troubleshoot this? Thanks! Matt[/quote] We had problems where the art department (me) was trying to import images into Thunder while directors were running their sequence. The machine would be busy with the import and the shot box would be unresponsive, but would buffer the directors frantic keystrokes and skip ahead however many times the take button was pushed. Our solution was to make a browse station the ingest point for the graphics. Scott Thomas WINK-TV

We have Thunder XL's and we have never had those problems. We have/had others like, the picons disappearing, and the machine acting slow, reboots fix these problems as well.. We don't run with the Pinnacle shotbox, we use one of these macro panels from X-keys, it mimics keyboard commands and is much mmore powerful then the Thunder shotbox. They are also very cheap. Bill