"This makes a lot of sense, never would of thought of it like that. With so many channels doing different things, this does seem the best way to use these channels, very cool.." You're right, Bill - While internal channels are great for a lot of things, if they're ALL you've got, then you've got to re-think the way that you build & run your show(s). It always annoyed me how on "other" switchers I had to not only use up an entire M/E to do a 2-box or a 4-box effect, but I also had to build timelines that not only drove the DVE channels, but also ended up driving the whole M/E. With external channels, I can build the whole 4-box effect "offline" while I'm driving the switcher & because both the DVEous & these new SONYs have backgrounds in addition to the "slash & fly" portions of each channel I can then take the whole 4-box effect + background as one source, never even touching an M/E - let alone not having to build or call up an M/E timeline that hoses me somewhere else. Look at how many people still use DVEous's out in the sports world...even if it's just as a multi-keyer combiner to do their replays. No, I don't see outboard DVE's going away any time soon - and (while definately a different animal) these new SONY boxes are a nice choice if you don't want a DVEous MX. It'll take some time, but I can see them as a future big player in stand-alone DVE's. "So those pulls, is a camera locked down on the wall? The game PC, calls up the correct effect and runs it?? As well as changing the font to be the right question (answer)?" Again, you're right - we have a camera locked down on the wall. The game computer calls up everything except the stills or playbacks that fly in the boxes. When you select "World History for $400", the game board operator touches the appropriate box on her computer with a light pen; that calls ups the correct CG (which I key over a Frame Memory on part of an M/E) - it puts it in the wall: on another part of the M/E I key the same CG at a different Luminance level over a different Frame Mem...that gets routed to one channel of the SONY DME that does the fly-out (I can also route a G5 Still Store or a Playback). The computer calls up the appropriate effect (30 of them for fly-outs, another 30 for Daily Doubles [where I have a slipping slab]) and runs it. On the other 2 channels, I have built a move that also runs when the fly-out happens - this move cuts from a second still store (which displays the $$$ amount of the clue) to yet another output of the same M/E where the CG is keyed over a 3rd Frame Mem...this makes it look like we're cutting to a close-up of the game board rather than blowing out the clue. The 4th output of the M/E is used to put the clue over a playback & is used for the "Daily Double" slab that flies on & off over a close-up of the contestant (this brick IS done using 3 internals channels of DME). Also, the DME does the "pan" of the categories at the beginning of each round. So that's the mistique behind the Jeopardy effects - while it took a bit to build everything & to organize everything so that it'll work in any condition, you can now see that (a) I'm no "video magician", and (b) I'm not working as hard throughout the show as you may have thought. "These display units are great, especially since you can program them to change, like if you want to see one or two of the channels larger, you can program it to come full while you build something then normal it up when done, etc." The Marshalls really look great, but we've had 3 failures out of 3 units & have had to replace all 3 with the newer models. Not a very good track record, but we're hoping that the NEW units will be better. "Definitely not something to throw into a control room that uses multiple users, I think it would get way too confusing, fun though.." Pretty much every news control room that I go to teach at has a different layout & different combinations of equipment which have to be learned by everyone who uses the room. Even different trucks use different layouts & different equipment. When our shows travel, they use the DENALI trucks from NEP (absolutly fantastic trucks!). But when DENALI aren't available, we use other NEP trucks - they're also very good, but everything's in a different place & there's different equipment to have to get used to. It's true, these new SONY DME's are a different animal - but so was the 8000 or Kalypso or Spot Box when they first were introduced, and people learned them quite well. If I were SONY, I'd be marketing these DME's like they do for the 8000's. Actually, these external DME's are EXACTLY the same as the internal channels - anyone who has used the 8000 with internal DME's should have no problem learning these new external boxes. I have received zero training on these new boxes and yet I have no problem running them. And having a "virtual monitor wall" of Marshalls driven by VIP's to show your inputs & outputs that can be re-mapped on a user-by-user basis is actually quite flexible & could be well suited to multiple users...if they don't die on you.

[quote="Bob Ennis"]Having internal channels is GREAT, but it means that your DME effects have to work within the constraints of switcher timelines. This works well for many effects, but not all. I run a lot of effects where the DME's need to run independently - I don't want to tie up switcher resources just to recall & run DME effects. I often am building DME effects while I'm switching the show...having external boxes lets me do this - if I have to recall a switcher effect while I'm building it won't affect my external DME building. It also lets me keep switcher effects constant while I change the associated DME effects that work with them.[/quote] This makes a lot of sense, never would of thought of it like that. With so many channels doing different things, this does seem the best way to use these channels, very cool.. [quote="Bob Ennis"]As an example, Jeopardy uses 30 different blowouts for clues, plus 30 daily double blowouts that tumble. To recall & run these effects, we use the external DME running under control of our game computer (which also calls up CG clues & feeds the big game wall).[/quote] So those pulls, is a camera locked down on the wall? The game PC, calls up the correct effect and runs it?? As well as changing the font to be the right question (answer)? [quote="Bob Ennis"]What IS impressive is the monitoring - I've got 3 Marshall 19-inch plasma displays, each being fed by a 12-display multiviewer. One unit shows me all of the inputs for 1 box, a second unit is for the 12 inputs for the 2nd box, and the 3rd unit shows me all 8 outputs of the channels. The leftover 4 displays in the 3rd multiviewer show me the main outputs of each M/E + PGM.[/quote] These display units are great, especially since you can program them to change, like if you want to see one or two of the channels larger, you can program it to come full while you build something then normal it up when done, etc. [quote="Bob Ennis"]As I said before, these are custom units, built just for these shows. They have some quirks & take some getting used to, but I am really growing to like them - I still use all 4 internal channels (especially for CG reposting & for DME wipes) but these external units are sweet.[/quote] Definitely not something to throw into a control room that uses multiple users, I think it would get way too confusing, fun though.. thanks for the great info Bob..

In fact the original offer that I was given WAS to have 4 more internal channels & then 1 external unit. Then I was offered 2 external units + 8 internal channels. I opted for 4 internal channels + 2 external units. The reason that I went for this configuration is this: while I won't claim to speak for anyone but myself, I believe that the sales pitches that "if you have internal channels then you don't need external boxes" are bunk - at least for me (Don't try to convince me to change the way I switch because YOU don't offer an external DVE of your own!). Having internal channels is GREAT, but it means that your DME effects have to work within the constraints of switcher timelines. This works well for many effects, but not all. I run a lot of effects where the DME's need to run independently - I don't want to tie up switcher resources just to recall & run DME effects. I often am building DME effects while I'm switching the show...having external boxes lets me do this - if I have to recall a switcher effect while I'm building it won't affect my external DME building. It also lets me keep switcher effects constant while I change the associated DME effects that work with them. By changing only 1 switcher parameter I can associate up to 100 different DME effects with that register without completly rebuilding the switcher register or having to change shotbox setups (or Master Effects parameters). I personally find it to be a more flexible way of operating, especially on Wheel, where every week I have different effects to match the show theme but I don't want to rebuild the switcher effects. As an example, Jeopardy uses 30 different blowouts for clues, plus 30 daily double blowouts that tumble. To recall & run these effects, we use the external DME running under control of our game computer (which also calls up CG clues & feeds the big game wall). While I am in control of what feeds the input to the blowouts (CG over Frame Memory, a G5 for still clues, or VT Playback), the computer drives the DME. I wouldn't want the computer calling up internal channels & running internal timelines that could conflict with other timelines or shotbox effects that I may be simultaneously doing. An external box under external control (which is how we use one of the DME's on Jeopardy) is really the "only way to go". Plus, if I need to do any fixes to the blowouts (due to a camera being out of position) I can work on it without affecting rehearsal or show. I normally don't bring a camera to the studio, but I'll try to get a photo of the setup for you. The boxes themselves are those 4 modules that I described before, plus a touchscreen menu for each unit. You could actually build your own panel from existing modules. What IS impressive is the monitoring - I've got 3 Marshall 19-inch plasma displays, each being fed by a 12-display multiviewer. One unit shows me all of the inputs for 1 box, a second unit is for the 12 inputs for the 2nd box, and the 3rd unit shows me all 8 outputs of the channels. The leftover 4 displays in the 3rd multiviewer show me the main outputs of each M/E + PGM. A photo would do better than my explanation. I'll see if I can get one. As I said before, these are custom units, built just for these shows. They have some quirks & take some getting used to, but I am really growing to like them - I still use all 4 internal channels (especially for CG repositing & for DME wipes) but these external units are sweet.

Wow.. Bob, thanks for sharing, that is very cool. I have to get back to watching these shows to see where the DME channels are used. Love that they offered 16 channels. Curious couldn't they have in theory put one of the additonal 4 DME's as another internal or external but controled and run from the regular switcher. That is a cool setup, what are the chances you can take a picture of that layout? I love the idea that if needed you can add so many DME's, and keeping it all Sony and all controlled from the switcher in some way. Rather then having Dveous or other external DVE's. thanks again Bill

We do have 12 channels of DME here on Wheel/Jeopardy connected to our 8000 switcher. 4 channels are the internal 9000 style. They are controlled via the Region Control with Snapshots & Effects. To replace our SD DME-7000 and DVEous, we replaced them with two 4-channel DME-9000's. These are the same type of DME's as the internal units, but they have an external power supply, external control (DCU) and external control panels. The panels consist of 4 of the modules off the switcher: Utility Module (shotbox), the wipe/DME control unit (trackball/Z-Ring), Region assign area, and the Edit/Effect Run Module plus a touchscreen menu for each. The two units appear to me as DME's 5-8 & 9-12. Because they share the same DCU, one unit CAN manipulate the other, although effects for each unit need to be stored & recalled on that unit. The external DME's appear to me as 2 DEVICES, each running Extended Machine Control. So effects are recalled from the switcher under the Device/Cueup&Play or Device/Timeline menu. Each channel has Video In, Key In, & External Video In, so we are using up 24 Aux Buses JUST to feed the external DME's. There are some quirks to programming & recalling/running the external DME's, but overall, they are working quite well...I am bringing in each channel separately into the switcher, and because of the DME's internal combiners, I can treat these devices as anything from 8 single-channel devices to 2 4-channel devices, or anything in-between. Because of the combiner & the advanced Non-Linear effects, I find it to be even more flexible than our old DME-7000/DVEous combination. Unfortunately, because of the nature of the advanced Machine Control for integration, I won't be able to use these on the road with a Kalypso - it can't do the necessary type of Advanced Machine Control. I've sent GVG the protocol, but haven't heard anything back from them about developing an interface. We may end up having to change switchers on our remotes. One neat thing about this setup - you can add as many of these external DME's as you have devices that you can control, and you can control each channel as a separate device or control all 4 channels of each DME as 1 device. As far as I know, we're the only ones with this new external DME - but I can easily see it as a commercial product that serves as a replacement for stand-alone DVE's. I was offered a total of 16 channels of DME for the shows, but I thought it was overkill & settled for 12.

[quote="Rick Edwards"]I think I saw that Bob Ennis is doing just that on Jeopardy. RE[/quote] Bob, or anyone else how does the system have to be hooked up. Do you just need another control panel like Jonas was saying, does that mean another frame as well? Wondering where the timeline gets stored, and how does the switcher know what it is controlling etc. thanks Bill

I think I saw that Bob Ennis is doing just that on Jeopardy. RE

the quick answer is yes with an if... i was told it is possible to have 8 internal and 4 external i f you used the main control panel surface to control the 8DME and another external control surface for the last four... make sense? somebody correct me if i'm wrong... jonas

Well, if you ever wanted to do the Brady Bunch effect. That's only 9 channels, though.