Hello Editsuite.com friends,

Due to tons of abuse, we now require that you request user access by sending us your Login, Name, Email Address, Phone Number, and Profession by submitting that info HERE.  I'll review your request and try to get back to you within the week.  You can't imagine how many folk want to trash forums with bogas advertising. 

Also, please help us gain enough Facebook "Likes" to have a custom Facebook URL!  

--Gary Lieberman

Sports on a 3 ME pannel.

23 replies [Last post]
Toby
User offline. Last seen 2 years 9 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 13 Oct 2009

Just wondering how everyone switches on a 3 ME control pannel, the company I freelance for is looking at getting 2 MEs frame (using Main/Sub Split) and a 3- ME Control Surface. 

I have only used a 4 ME 3k or a 4 ME Kalypso, I'm not sure the best way to use just a 3 ME board. Do you cut your game on ME 3, replay on ME 2 and leave ME 1 open for clocks, split screens ETC? or do you cut on ME 2 replay on ME 1 and use ME 3 the traditonal way.

 

Thanks,

Toby

 

John Phillips
John Phillips's picture
User offline. Last seen 3 years 12 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 18 May 2009
Toby: I typically work on GVG Kayenne and Kalypso systems and occasionally on Sony.  I cut my game on M/E 3 and use Pgm/Pst for the transitional area up to M/E 1 for graphics and replays.  I know a lot of TDs are going to M/E 2 for replays and such but old habits are hard to break and I still use M/E 1 as a holdover from the GVG-300 days where M/E 1 was typically not fully loaded with options.  That left me with M/E 2 for any significant effect building and that's how I continue to switch my show.   I'd seriously try to talk your employer out of the 2 M/E idea.  To me that shows a serious lack of future-proofing for clients.  Sure you could do the show on 2 M/Es but why would you want to?  It just closes up the margin for error and gives you no options if someone comes to you and asks for a totally clean feed or something else that requires you need a whole M/E to accomplish.   Now that said, I used to do some training for Ross and given the way their macros work, I'd be totally comfortable cutting a show on a 1 M/E board with Pgm/Pst.  But again, why would I want to.  It doesn't leave any room for growth to bigger shows.   JP 
hosko
hosko's picture
User offline. Last seen 2 weeks 2 days ago. Offline
Joined: 24 Aug 2008

Wow a 2 year old thread makes a return

andermik
User offline. Last seen 19 weeks 17 hours ago. Offline
Joined: 13 Jan 2006

Hi Toby,

I worked with a 7000X last summer.  I don't know all the hardware details, but I know that it had 2 M/E boards.  That made it configurable for 2, 4 or 6 M/E's, 4 keyers per M/E.  You'd need to check with the Sony rep to learn all the specifics, because delegating keyers wasn't totally clear.  It seems that if you can have 6 M/E's with 4 keyers each (24 total keyers) that you could then have 4 M/E's with 6 keyers each, but I don't think that was the way it worked.  However, we also had a 3 M/E control panel, and we configured it as a 4 M/E switcher, 4 keyers per M/E.  Although it's a bit cumbersome, you can delegate M/E control (like M/E 1) to a particular control bank and build some effects (like clocks or splits, etc.) and store them to the shotbox.  Then you can delegate a different M/E (like M/E 2) to that same bank for the live portion of the show (like replays) and use the shotbox to recall the preset effects of the other M/E (M/E 1) without it being delgated to a control bank.

Also, I may be wrong, but I think that the Multi-program 2 Option is required to be able to split the resources into the 6 M/E's.  Check with Sony about that.

--Mike

Toby
User offline. Last seen 2 years 9 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 13 Oct 2009

Mike,

   Thanks for the info! How did you run the Sony 7000x, what did you put on ME1, ME2 and Program/Preset for that matter how do you switch with just a 3 ME pannel.

I'm thinking I would only use Program/Preset for tran, I'm worried about the state of the keyers if I try and cut on Program/Preset.

 

Thanks!

Toby 

andermik
User offline. Last seen 19 weeks 17 hours ago. Offline
Joined: 13 Jan 2006

Hi Toby,

I switched the same as I would on a 4 M/E panel.  However, M/E 1 was "buried."  I had some splits and boxes built on M/E 1 that I could recall with a shotbox.  They were preset items, meaning that I knew the input sources in advance and would not have to change them, so it worked.

I used M/E 3 for camera cut, M/E 2 for replays and P/P for transitions.

--Mike

 

Tim Ward
User offline. Last seen 2 years 2 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 29 May 2012

Hi Mike,

Why don't you use P/P for game/camera cuts? Because it's cleaner & more organized to group live & replay/splits into M/E's for going back and forth between them (makes sense to me)?

 

-Tim

Matt Saplin
User offline. Last seen 29 weeks 1 day ago. Offline
Joined: 29 Oct 2005

Tim,

I used to do a lot of sports on a 3 ME GV Zodiak, and I finally went the way of using P/P to cut cameras.  I was able to kluge a better clean-feed solution for my client, and also gain more real estate on the switcher (and doing as you suggested, keeping replays in ME2, and using ME1 for splits, cloc over game camera, etc).  The downside was not having a dedicated e-mem panel (I didn't really want to use the Master E-MEM for this) to use to cut cameras -- I ended-up cutting right on the P/P bus.  If the shows were more complex, I might have found myself sinking in quicksand...  :)

Matt

Tim Ward
User offline. Last seen 2 years 2 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 29 May 2012

Ok Matt. I'm just curious as to how different TDs set up their shows. What do you use your E-MEMS for (I'm still noobish)?

Tim

Matt Saplin
User offline. Last seen 29 weeks 1 day ago. Offline
Joined: 29 Oct 2005

Tim, if I had a bigger switcher, I'd be using e-mem in ME-3 to cut cameras ... so Bank 0 would be cameras with the scorebug and clock, and Bank 1 would be cameras with Chyron only, or something like that.  The e-mem would correspond to the camera number, so you're not all over the switcher trying to cut cameras with different combinations of keys.

 

In this case, I was on P/P of a Zodiak, and the only e-mem panel dedicated to that bank is the master e-mem panel.  Generally, master e-mem is where you'd build all of your replay wipes and effects, as you're linking together different switcher regions and external boxes like a Spotbox (P/P, Misc 2, SS) on a timeline.  What many of us do is build macros that point to those master e-mem recalls so it's one button press from an area of the switcher that's more convenient for us to work from.

 

Does that help, Tim?

Tim Ward
User offline. Last seen 2 years 2 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 29 May 2012

So you use e-mems to cut cameras, and depending on the shot you'll switch to e-mem bank 0 (4 key presses on Sony: "Shift," 2-digit bank number, e-mem key) and cut cams with fox box, then switch to bank 1 to cut a shot with Chyron but without fox box, then recall bank 0 and cut with fox box again, each time using 4 key presses to cut a cam with different keys/supers? I can do that with 3 key presses (only 2 motions if on my P's and Q's) on the P/P bus on Sony, without using e-mems... But I realize Grass switchers are different than Sony, and e-mem recall may be more streamlined. Then again, I may be totally missing the point here! Thanks for bearing with me Matt.

 

Tim

Matt Saplin
User offline. Last seen 29 weeks 1 day ago. Offline
Joined: 29 Oct 2005

I follow your thinking, but it's even more simple and efficient than that, Tim.  

 

We mainly use bank 0 and bank 1 for game action, since most of the switchers that are out there have dedicated bank 0 and bank 1 buttons to the right of numeric e-mem recall buttons (the flexipad on the Sony has this, and the Kalypso has a few more giving quick access to up to Bank 8).  It's pretty much just for game action, so at most it might be 2 button presses (the bank 0 or bank 1 hot key, then the e-mem button for the camera).

 

The idea is to have fewer buttons to press, and to be able to get to the necessary combination of keys and cameras quickly and accurately.  TD's on bigger shows may handle it differently, but on smaller 5 or 7 camera coverage, this works pretty well.

 

Matt

Tim Ward
User offline. Last seen 2 years 2 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 29 May 2012

Unfortunately for me, I'm on a DVS-7000 series, so the Flexipads don't have the Bank selection keys. But you guys have given me ideas I can use to improve and streamline my setups and workflows, so I thank you. At least I'm not on the Ampex Century I started on years ago!

Tim

Mike Cumbo
User offline. Last seen 7 weeks 2 days ago. Offline
Joined: 18 Aug 2005

Tim, sounds like you use a Sony 7000 series. Luckily, Sony improved things on the 8000 family.

 

On a Kalypso, which I use most of the time, there are four bank buttons. 0, 1, 2, 3 on the E-Mem section for each ME.  If I double punch bank 0 it becomes bank 4, double punch 1 and it becomes bank 5. 2 becomes 6 and 3 becomes 7. If you need banks 8 and 9, you need to hit the BANK button and then either 8 or 9.

 

My "normal" is bank 0 cameras with bug, Bank1 cameras with bug and CG1, bank2 is cameras with bug and CG 2 and bank3 is cameras clean.

Toby
User offline. Last seen 2 years 9 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 13 Oct 2009

Mike,

I use your "normal" set up on Bank 0 for my camera's, I was using a Macro to cut my preview camera onair with CG 1.

 This weekend for my indoor football game I'm going to try your set up for banks 1 & 2, this sure helps if for some reason my graphics person puts something on CG 2.

Now do you cut using Emem all the time or just when you need to add a CG?

Toby

Mike Cumbo
User offline. Last seen 7 weeks 2 days ago. Offline
Joined: 18 Aug 2005

Change only if you know it will help you work better/faster/ more efficiently. Don't change because someone else does something different. You may not think the same way.

 

As for cutting, it varies. Things like director and how they work, what switcher I am on, it really varies.

Toby
User offline. Last seen 2 years 9 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 13 Oct 2009

Hey Mike,

  I like the ideal and thought I would give it a try, it may or may not work for me but I'm always trying to find ways to become better.

 I did do this alot on the 3k for CG1 but once I went to the Kalypso I went with a Marco instead, I also just started using Emem 7-8-9 for bug effects to take the bug on and off plus a slide effect for CG's that appears above the score bug with added info.

I used to alwsys cut using Emem on the 3k for cutting my cameras but now that most of my work is on the Kalypso I have just punch the camera without using Emem's

Toby

Toby

Tim Ward
User offline. Last seen 2 years 2 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 29 May 2012

Yes Mike, a 7250. You've obviously had a little experience on them. Those bank buttons make a difference alright...I was pretty sure E-mem operation on a GVG was easier. :)

I actually just put my hands on the switcher and was able to actually do what I said in my previous post with 2 key presses by just presetting and cutting (on P/P) to switch between fox box/bug and Chyron, but of course, and unfortunately, there are only 2 DSKs on P/P (as well as on each M/E), so that makes it a little more difficult, but easily manageable. You guys' examples of how you set up are very helpful.

Tim

Mongo
User offline. Last seen 2 years 19 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 24 Jan 2007

Generally, replays and splits/2boxes/etc. are done on ME1, with game action on ME2, and ME 3 as the transition bus.  Make sure your director/producer knows this limitation.

 

I'm a little unclear on the use of a 2 ME frame with a 3 ME panel.  What switcher are you getting?

 

 

Toby
User offline. Last seen 2 years 9 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 13 Oct 2009

They are looking at the Sony 7000-x, I'm hoping they would buy the Sony with a 3 ME frame not just the 2 ME frame. They are looking to save money by getting a 2 ME frame with the pannel with 3 ME so once you split the ME's you would get 3 of the 4 ME's on the pannel.

The other switcher they are looking at is the GV Karrera, I'm not sure what they will all get if they buy the Karrera instead of the Sony.

 

Toby

Seth Madway
User offline. Last seen 5 years 4 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 15 Sep 2005

SONY 7000X MEs

Toby:

Don’t think of the “2 ME boards” in the traditional manner, the 7000X is scalable/configurable and the ME board architecture is unique. Each physical ME board contains 4 transition modules and 8 full function keyers.  This allows the creation of up to 4 logical MEs from a single board.  2 boards permit the creation of up to 6 logical MEs, (due to software limitations).  With the MPE2 option, you can split each ME (Main/Sub) effectively providing up to 12 MEs from a frame with only 2 ME boards.  Typical configuration for 2 ME boards would be 4 MEs, each with 4 keyers.  If however, you only need 2 keyers in PGM/PST, you could configure ME3 with 6 keyers, etc.

As far as the panel goes, as has been said before, you burry MEs that you don’t need immediate access to.  I run a 5 ME 8000X on a 4 ME panel.  I use macros to switch between ME1 and ME4 on the top row.  Panel buttons can be assigned to switch between Main & Sub.

- Seth

XLNTeditor
User offline. Last seen 5 years 4 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 18 Aug 2006

Too bad they're only looking at Grass and Sony. I was on a Kahuna last year and loved it. I hear the Kahuna 360 is even better but I haven't seen one of those yet.

-Irv

Toby
User offline. Last seen 2 years 9 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 13 Oct 2009

Irv,

  The funny thing is one of the ENG for them was the cheif ENG at one of the local station here in town and he picked a Kahuna for their upgrade to HD, but like Mike said both Sony and GV can bring more to the table then just the switcher. I have heard many good things about the Kahuna switchers.

 

Toby

Mike Cumbo
User offline. Last seen 7 weeks 2 days ago. Offline
Joined: 18 Aug 2005

Both Grass and Sony will package other items, like cameras when trying to woo a customer. Snell doesn't have that ability.

 

A while back an engineering manager I know also said that Snell was more expensive than Grass or Sony. Not sure if that still applies.