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Tally through Kayenne EDPM

12 replies [Last post]
Paul Spitzer
User offline. Last seen 31 weeks 6 days ago. Offline
Joined: 1 Oct 2005

Is it possible for tallies to be active through the EDPM on a Kayenne Classic (s.w. version 4.xx)?  Sources selected as EDPM inputs don't tally unless somehow you're able to make them hot on the main panel.  Is there an engineering pref that somehow might not be turned on, internal tally matrix issue...or just not possible?  Thanks in advance.

Paul Spitzer

thejd
User offline. Last seen 1 year 6 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 26 Mar 2012

Hi Paul,

I'm curious as to what you are trying to achieve as it sounds similar to something I had been trying to pull off prior to this past spring.  I had tried to build my ESPN LAX show by feeding my camera cut and replay MEs into the eDPM and then putting the eDPM to air on program.  I wanted to get around the 1-frame delay glitch when getting on and off this effect.  The problem was that tallys did not follow the sources (cameras or anything else) through the MEs to the eDPM that was punched up on air.  My conclusion (and understanding of the Kayenne signal path which might be very wrong) was that there is a tally follow not happening because the eDPM is essentially an external device like a glorified DVous whose output is akin to normal external source.  Obviously tallys would not follow upstream of that input.  I would think there has to be, somewhere, an ancillary data pass-through or tally follow function in the engineering menus but I was not able to find it.  I also did not ask the engineers on my trucks about it because most times their eyebrows raise.

In my situation I fed my camera cut ME, replay ME, and squeeze box artwork to the eDPM and keyed that on the program bus on the bottom priority.  Then I used source rules to automatically key/unkey the eDPM when on/off the camera cut ME and added one frame to my flip/flop effect timelines to account for the eDPM timing.  This setup allowed tallys to follow whatever was underneath the eDPM.

Paul Spitzer
User offline. Last seen 31 weeks 6 days ago. Offline
Joined: 1 Oct 2005

Just trying to air the normal split screens, review boxes, etc.  Problem is we're doing Fox duels so visitor side gets most of the IDPMs.  I got around this by lum keying the EDPM composite (crank the clip and gain) on top of the other keyers on an ME, turning the lower priority keyers on, and bus linking them to the EDPM inputs.  Cameras get tallies from the keyers which are controlling the EDPM inputs.  An effective workaround but ties up an ME.

thejd
User offline. Last seen 1 year 6 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 26 Mar 2012

Hi Paul,

I had a conversation with an EIC a couple weeks ago about this and got his answer.  The K-Frame tally interface is Ethernet or LAN or something like that, whereas the Classic is Serial, so the issue comes down to bandwidth.  There's simply too much information to push out the serial port on a classic frame.  That may be a configuration thing that the EIC can program on his end, but it is not something that is buried in a menu on the GUI.

Looks like your workaround is similar to my setup for live squeeze boxes.

Paul Spitzer
User offline. Last seen 31 weeks 6 days ago. Offline
Joined: 1 Oct 2005

Thanks, thejd...just can't get my head around how they didn't think to implement this in the first place. Maybe I should just thank Grass for making me twist my brain up enough to figure a workaround! Pretty much going to treat stripe 1 (ME2 sec) AS the EDPM.

andermik
User offline. Last seen 19 weeks 17 hours ago. Offline
Joined: 13 Jan 2006

hi Paul,

I work on 30HDX regularly, on the dual side.  It's a classic frame.  That truck has the eDPM's allocated to the dual TD.  Tallies for splits and boxes work fine without creating any work-arounds.  So, I suspect that the tally programming in the truck you are using is not set up correctly.  The EIC should look at it for you.

Paul Spitzer
User offline. Last seen 31 weeks 6 days ago. Offline
Joined: 1 Oct 2005

Interesting, andermik... I'll ask my EIC to contact your EIC..

Mike Cumbo
User offline. Last seen 7 weeks 2 days ago. Offline
Joined: 18 Aug 2005

Paul, sorry for not replying sooner.

Working on a K Frame for a few days. If I key the eDPM it tallies the sources. Since a K Frame is using some of the iDPM resources, that makes sense that the sources would tally. i do not know when I will see a Classic. 

if you have time, call Grass, see if they know IF the eDPM should tally the sources. I understand the explanation given but it seems so illogical not to be able to tally the sources. 

Paul Spitzer
User offline. Last seen 31 weeks 6 days ago. Offline
Joined: 1 Oct 2005

Definitely works on K-Frame...should've mentioned in the original post. You have a tel# for Grass tech support? I'll gladly call and start a ticket.

Paul

Mike Cumbo
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Joined: 18 Aug 2005
Paul Spitzer
User offline. Last seen 31 weeks 6 days ago. Offline
Joined: 1 Oct 2005

Thanks Mike.

Paul Spitzer
User offline. Last seen 31 weeks 6 days ago. Offline
Joined: 1 Oct 2005

Oops...replied to myself...

Mike,

Not sure if I'm making myself clear or I just misunderstand what you're saying...

The EDPM DOES tally.  The sources (cams) coming through it are not.  The board is a 4.5 ME Classic in dual suite mode.  EDPM is being used for splits, review boxes, etc. where cameras need tallies.  Viz side gets most of the IDPMs.  I've gotten around this by keying the whole EDPM composite (can't see through) on the top keyer of an ME and then turning on keyers UNDERNEATH the EDPM, thus giving tallies to cameras (bus linking ties keyers to EDPM inputs).  But I have to tie up an ME to do this and would rather not.  Thanks.

Paul

Mike Cumbo
User offline. Last seen 7 weeks 2 days ago. Offline
Joined: 18 Aug 2005

One off the wall idea, put eDPM into a iDPM channel, set the size to .0001 and the density to .001. Key that on PGM. You would get your tally.

How many ME's do you have? Is the switcher set up for multi suite mode? If you have ME 50, can you put the eDPM on that 1/2 ME, get a tally off the 1/2 ME running as PGM for the second suite? 

Without going to multi suite mode, you might ask your engineer if it is possible to get a primary or secondary tally off of ME 50. Depending on what tally system is being used in the truck/studio, that might work.